Gas Question
- Thread starter Davey
- Start date
Gas
There is no problem mixing E10 with regular gasoline.
Ethanol Facts:
Ethanol can affect many plastics and rubber. However, most fuel hoses made after 1984 and marked with SAE J1527 are designed to withstand ethanol. Some older fuel filter bowls made of plastic may be affected and some seals, o-rings, or plastic parts could be damaged.
The other issue is performance and driveability. Ethanol absorbs water readily and as little as .5% water will cause a phase separation. A water/ethanol mixture, being heavier than gas, will sink to the bottom of the gas tank, leaving a lower octane gas on top. This low octane gas can cause performance issues with 4-stroke engines, but can cause damage with 2-strokes due to a lean condition. In addition, 2-stroke engines can be damaged if a quantity of water/ethanol is ingested since the proper lubricating oil won’t be present. Keeping water out of the tank is obvisouly important.
Another problem with the introduction of ethanol copmes from mixing gas with MTBE and gas with ethanol, especially in the presence of water. This chemical soup is believed by some manufacturers to create a gel-like substance that clogs passages in carburetors, most notably in outboards. Stalled engines and shop bills are the result. Fuel injected engines seem to suffer much less than carbureted ones.
When ethanol is first introduced, you may experience more frequent fuel filter replacement as ethanol’s superior solvent properties cleans old varnish and other stuff from the tank.
Gas with ethanol also typically delivers slightly less fuel economy. This is due to Ethanol havein a lower BTU rating than gasoline.
Another issues with ethanol comes with storage. Conventional long-term storage advice says stor with a full tank. If you use and ethanol blend, it is better to store with an empty tank. Ethanol will drop out of solution after about two weeks of storage without additives. An additive such as StarBrite Startron (I only recommend this brand, gas or diesel version doesn't matter). Can prolong storage periods. Startron alone will keep the Ethanol dissolved in solution for approximately 1 month, and if used with a fuel stabilizer like Sta-Bil, can keep the fuel mixture intact for a maximum of three months. Also, do not use a water absorb er with an Ethanol-blended fuel. Most commercially available water absorbers use either methyl or ethyl alcohol (methanol or ethanol). Using these to correct a water-in-fuel problem with an ethanol-blended gasoline will actually make the problem worse. Hope this helps.
There is no problem mixing E10 with regular gasoline.
Ethanol Facts:
Ethanol can affect many plastics and rubber. However, most fuel hoses made after 1984 and marked with SAE J1527 are designed to withstand ethanol. Some older fuel filter bowls made of plastic may be affected and some seals, o-rings, or plastic parts could be damaged.
The other issue is performance and driveability. Ethanol absorbs water readily and as little as .5% water will cause a phase separation. A water/ethanol mixture, being heavier than gas, will sink to the bottom of the gas tank, leaving a lower octane gas on top. This low octane gas can cause performance issues with 4-stroke engines, but can cause damage with 2-strokes due to a lean condition. In addition, 2-stroke engines can be damaged if a quantity of water/ethanol is ingested since the proper lubricating oil won’t be present. Keeping water out of the tank is obvisouly important.
Another problem with the introduction of ethanol copmes from mixing gas with MTBE and gas with ethanol, especially in the presence of water. This chemical soup is believed by some manufacturers to create a gel-like substance that clogs passages in carburetors, most notably in outboards. Stalled engines and shop bills are the result. Fuel injected engines seem to suffer much less than carbureted ones.
When ethanol is first introduced, you may experience more frequent fuel filter replacement as ethanol’s superior solvent properties cleans old varnish and other stuff from the tank.
Gas with ethanol also typically delivers slightly less fuel economy. This is due to Ethanol havein a lower BTU rating than gasoline.
Another issues with ethanol comes with storage. Conventional long-term storage advice says stor with a full tank. If you use and ethanol blend, it is better to store with an empty tank. Ethanol will drop out of solution after about two weeks of storage without additives. An additive such as StarBrite Startron (I only recommend this brand, gas or diesel version doesn't matter). Can prolong storage periods. Startron alone will keep the Ethanol dissolved in solution for approximately 1 month, and if used with a fuel stabilizer like Sta-Bil, can keep the fuel mixture intact for a maximum of three months. Also, do not use a water absorb er with an Ethanol-blended fuel. Most commercially available water absorbers use either methyl or ethyl alcohol (methanol or ethanol). Using these to correct a water-in-fuel problem with an ethanol-blended gasoline will actually make the problem worse. Hope this helps.
cagrove
Contributing Member
I would run the tank down as far a possible before adding E10 gas to the tank. Also, make sure you have a good 10 micron fuel/water seperator filter installed in line to prevent any water from getting to the engine.
Good luck.
NJWardy
Participating Member
- City
- Audubon
I suggest doing as cagrove suggests. I had problems when I mixed...a sludge formed and puzzled the mechanics for a whole season. Also pamarine has posted facts and here is one key to highlight:
Another problem with the introduction of ethanol copmes from mixing gas with MTBE and gas with ethanol, especially in the presence of water. This chemical soup is believed by some manufacturers to create a gel-like substance that clogs passages in carburetors, most notably in outboards. Stalled engines and shop bills are the result. Fuel injected engines seem to suffer much less than carbureted ones.
Another problem with the introduction of ethanol copmes from mixing gas with MTBE and gas with ethanol, especially in the presence of water. This chemical soup is believed by some manufacturers to create a gel-like substance that clogs passages in carburetors, most notably in outboards. Stalled engines and shop bills are the result. Fuel injected engines seem to suffer much less than carbureted ones.
OspreyVic
Contributing Member
- City
- Osprey
Speaking only for myself, I add Sta-Bil every time I add gas to the tank. I have an Excel spreadsheet where I record all boat usage, where we went, starting and ending Flo-Scan reading, starting hours on engine and ending hours, etc. Add a little calculator to tell me how much Sta-Bil to add after every fill up based on actual gallons used.
Seams to work for me.
Seams to work for me.
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- State
- Florida
You can mix the two, but I would consider using this product with such a mixture
http://www.performanceoutdoors.net/forums/marine-engines/2285-fuel-additive.html
http://www.performanceoutdoors.net/forums/marine-engines/2285-fuel-additive.html
tfink
Participating Member
- City
- Clayton
- State
- Ohio
I took my boat out for the first time this season about 10 days ago. It ran fine for the first 2-3 hours. After that it ran sluggish. By the way I have less than 25 hours on the boat since I purchased it in the fall.
I took it to a dealership to have them check it out, not sure what the diagnoses is yet, but I suspect is has something to do with the fuel. The engine is a Yamaha F115. Anyway they gave me some interesting information that I thought I would share, I won't swear to the legitimacey.
Regarding the fuel, I was told that gasoline loses 1 octane per week it sits in the tank; therefore, if it sits in the tank for 20 weeks over the winter, 87 octane is actually 67 octane. The reason this is important is because these Yamaha engines are built to such tight tolerances that 87 octane is what they are designed to be ran with for the best performance. E-10 shouldn't be ran and higher octane won't run that good either. The service guy actually said that the majority of the gas should be ran out at the end of the season. If moisture collects from condensation, simply add a product like Sea Foam. By the way if you use a gas stabilizer every 2nd or 3rd tank you should be sure to add it at the end of the season to the tank (I'm sure everyone knows this but me), then most importantly, run the motor for about an hour to ensure the stabilizer goes through the fuel lines and treats the engine as well. The service manager suggested running stabilizer in every tank, but the mechanic said that every couple of tanks is fine.
Back to my woes for just a second, I will hear tomorrow what the deal is, I'm sure it has something to do with the gas that sat in the tank, I put the Yamaha treatment in it last winter, but didn't run the engine. I'm not sure that I used enough treatment based on the amount of gas that was in the tank either.
Live an learn... the hard way I guess.
I took it to a dealership to have them check it out, not sure what the diagnoses is yet, but I suspect is has something to do with the fuel. The engine is a Yamaha F115. Anyway they gave me some interesting information that I thought I would share, I won't swear to the legitimacey.
Regarding the fuel, I was told that gasoline loses 1 octane per week it sits in the tank; therefore, if it sits in the tank for 20 weeks over the winter, 87 octane is actually 67 octane. The reason this is important is because these Yamaha engines are built to such tight tolerances that 87 octane is what they are designed to be ran with for the best performance. E-10 shouldn't be ran and higher octane won't run that good either. The service guy actually said that the majority of the gas should be ran out at the end of the season. If moisture collects from condensation, simply add a product like Sea Foam. By the way if you use a gas stabilizer every 2nd or 3rd tank you should be sure to add it at the end of the season to the tank (I'm sure everyone knows this but me), then most importantly, run the motor for about an hour to ensure the stabilizer goes through the fuel lines and treats the engine as well. The service manager suggested running stabilizer in every tank, but the mechanic said that every couple of tanks is fine.
Back to my woes for just a second, I will hear tomorrow what the deal is, I'm sure it has something to do with the gas that sat in the tank, I put the Yamaha treatment in it last winter, but didn't run the engine. I'm not sure that I used enough treatment based on the amount of gas that was in the tank either.
Live an learn... the hard way I guess.
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- State
- Florida
Though I would not store fuel that long without some kind of additive (Startron) where I live... Chevron though, states it will store longer than most people think without loosing Octane ratings
Chevron Products: Mr. Gasoline Answers
Chevron Products: Mr. Gasoline Answers
E-10
I am going to echo Dave's recommendation. Use the treatment every time you add fuel. Also, the amount of water E-10 can absorb can easily overwhelm a seperator, so I also recommend the types with drainable bowls instead of the less-expensive one-pice designs.
I am going to echo Dave's recommendation. Use the treatment every time you add fuel. Also, the amount of water E-10 can absorb can easily overwhelm a seperator, so I also recommend the types with drainable bowls instead of the less-expensive one-pice designs.
tfink
Participating Member
- City
- Clayton
- State
- Ohio
Well, I finally got my boat back this morning. It turns out it had nothing to do with the gas in the tank. My fuel line had a pin hole in it somewhere around the fuel filter, so when you cranked the RPMs a bit it increased the pressure squirting gas in the wrong place and the engine was actually starving for fuel. So luckily I made it out with no charge.
I did walk out of the dealership (not a Triumph dealership) with a delimma though; re: using stabilizer. The service manager said to use a stabilizer with every tank (my sales guy said the same thing), the mechanic said use it every 2-3 tanks and finally the parts manager said that it's a waste of money to use it at all prior to winter storage (or long term no use). I gotta tell you, I'm confused.
Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- State
- Florida
First, you use so little Startron that to me it is only logical to use it with each tank...
Second, One never knows how long the boat is going to set with that same tank of fuel it in. Somebody could get sick, works extra hours, the weather gets nasty every weekend for weeks on end, etc. etc...
Third, Does one know how long that fuel really sat in the station tanks before you pumped it into yours? Could be bottom of barrel scruge you are getting and as prices go up, demand will (and has) dropped some... Knowing such "could" happen in all three instances, dropping in a few ounces of treatment into the boat tank is no big deal, and really cheap insurance in the long run
Second, One never knows how long the boat is going to set with that same tank of fuel it in. Somebody could get sick, works extra hours, the weather gets nasty every weekend for weeks on end, etc. etc...
Third, Does one know how long that fuel really sat in the station tanks before you pumped it into yours? Could be bottom of barrel scruge you are getting and as prices go up, demand will (and has) dropped some... Knowing such "could" happen in all three instances, dropping in a few ounces of treatment into the boat tank is no big deal, and really cheap insurance in the long run
fridaysoff
Contributing Member
- City
- Leland
Ditto what Putershark said."Cheap Insurance" I've been using Startron and Ring Free in every tank for 5 years straight and have not had a problem with fuel or my engines. 60HP Yammy 4 stroke and 150hp Yammy 4 stroke.
JD
JD
additives to gas
I have a 150 honda on a 210c/c, I have always used a stailizer with every gas fill since 2005.
I never had a fuel problem. When we started getting e-10 gas, My dealer said Honda recomended adding startron fuel stabilizer with every fill.Also added a fuel and water seperator.
I check filter every time we go out, about 2 times a week. So far every thing runs good. no
problems.
I have a 150 honda on a 210c/c, I have always used a stailizer with every gas fill since 2005.
I never had a fuel problem. When we started getting e-10 gas, My dealer said Honda recomended adding startron fuel stabilizer with every fill.Also added a fuel and water seperator.
I check filter every time we go out, about 2 times a week. So far every thing runs good. no
problems.
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