Tongue Weight
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djnolan
Contributing Member
- City
- Herndon
Rule of thumb is tongue weight should be 8% of the total weight for optimal towing. So I expect your trailer and boat tongue weight is around 8-12% of total weight of boat, motor and trailer. I know on a 190 it is about 240 lbs. On a 210 it would be a little more. It can also be weighed with a bathroom scale.
Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
There is no way of knowing your individual tongue weight without actually weighing it. Your dealer might have adjusted the axles to give you a proper tongue wieght, as described by djnolan above, but I seriously doubt it. You can adjust the tongue weight by loosening the axle U-bolts and sliding the axle(s) forward to lessen the T.W. or rearward to increase T.W. Most dealers don't bother to do it for you. At least mine didn't.
Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
150 is awfully light for the 210. My total weight on the 195CC with fuel and gear is about 4400# incl trailer and my tongue weight was about 280 or so, and that was too light. It was causing the trailer to sway a bit, so I adjusted the axles to get the weight up closer to 350-370. (It was over 700# as it came from the dealer, so I had adjusted it initially to the 280). I have to use a 4X4 with a fulcrum to use the bath scale for weighing it. It pulls a lot better now. Too light a weight on the tongue will cause trailer sway.
djnolan
Contributing Member
- City
- Herndon
The boat position on the trailer is the single largest factor affecting tongue weight. Before even thinking about adjusting tounge weight you must make sure the boat is fully on the trailer and well supported by the bunks. The transom should be all the way on the bunks. Moving the winch stand may be needed to get the boat in the proper position on the trailer.
Next the trailer frame needs to be level when hooked up to the hitch for best handling. Level the trailer by changing the drop of the hitch insert. They are available in different drop sizes from -2 in. to +4 in.
Once level, you can begin to assess whether the axle needs to be moved to bring the tounge weight into the 8-12% weight range. Use a bathroom scale and a block of wood to weight the tounge.
Moving the axel will adjust the tounge weight. You can adjust the tongue weight by loosening the axle U-bolts and sliding the axle(s) forward to lessen the T.W. or rearward to increase T.W. citation
350lbs is a lot of weight for a mid size suv. Leveling the trailer may allow you to drop the tongue weight to the 240 range and still get acceptable handling.
Next the trailer frame needs to be level when hooked up to the hitch for best handling. Level the trailer by changing the drop of the hitch insert. They are available in different drop sizes from -2 in. to +4 in.
Once level, you can begin to assess whether the axle needs to be moved to bring the tounge weight into the 8-12% weight range. Use a bathroom scale and a block of wood to weight the tounge.
Moving the axel will adjust the tounge weight. You can adjust the tongue weight by loosening the axle U-bolts and sliding the axle(s) forward to lessen the T.W. or rearward to increase T.W. citation
350lbs is a lot of weight for a mid size suv. Leveling the trailer may allow you to drop the tongue weight to the 240 range and still get acceptable handling.
Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
Not sure to whom you are addressing your post, but your last sentence, "350lbs is a lot of weight for a mid size suv," seems directed at my previous post. Let me assure you, the trailer is level, which in my case required raising the hitch ball about 2" since my 1990 Jeep Comanche P/U is not as tall as today's truck. It also weighs a few hundred pounds less that what I'm towing. It is a one ton truck with a tow rating of 5000# and I've done a number of things to increase it's tow abilities. And 350# is nothing for it. I pull 250 miles each way 6-8 times a year on interstate hwys to get to where I fish. I don't understand your point, when you say yourself, correctly, that the TW should be 8-12% of total pulled weight. 350# is 8% of 4400#. I know what I'm doing. The dealer did not. His solution to a 700+ pound tongue weight was to slide the boat back to where it was sitting a good 6" off the bunks and move the winch stand accordingly, a bad solution which I promptly corrected by moving the axles instead. I thought that I might get by with less than 8% on the tongue, but found it much better at its present weight of 350 or so. Now, were a person to tow my boat behind an 8000# behemoth, it probably would be just fine at a lighter TW, but I doubt that he'd get 11 MPG towing it. My 25 year old Comanche does fine. The object of most of my modifications on the truck has been with the brakes.
Chad@MerrittMarine
Triumph Dealer
- City
- Hillsborough
hey guys, sorry for the mis-information, for some reason i was thinking 190 bay, sorry randy, as for the 210/215 anywhere in the mid 200lbs range would work out great. Also, check and make sure on your tandem trailers once they are connected to the truck that the trailer is level, adjust the hitch as needed to prevent uneven thread damage. Have a great day guys.
Push&Pull
Recognized Leader Triumph 210 / 215 Forum
- City
- Florida City
- State
- Florida
I have towed everything from rigs over 100,000 lbs to trailers behind my motorcycle. And believe me, it boggles the mind how many are setup incorrectly.
I have a 210 and set up my tongue to just over 400 lbs. I tow with a pickup and this keeps adequate weight on the truck's rear axle to maintain good control and braking. It also provides for better traction when launching and pulling the boat out of a ramp. Most people grossly underestimate the weight of their rigs and typically have way to little tongue weight in attempts to make the rig easier to hitch and unhitch or prevent squatting their tow vehicle. (And when it comes to dealers, they simply don't know or don't care)
Make sure you take into account the weight of the trailer as well as the boat.....or better yet, go get the whole rig weighed...(loaded and fueled). Then as Harper said above, set the boat in the correct position on the trailer and adjust the axles for the recommended tongue weight around 10%. If the tow vehicle squats too much, beef up the springs. If it's under-rated.....upgrade. (my truck's tow rating is much higher than my boat's weight but it still squatted the rear, so I added aux-springs to maintain level towing).
Just keep in mind...... saying it "seems Ok" doesn't make it right. You'll find out at the worst possible time.
As a Class A CDL driver, I have seen a lot of rigs setup completely wrong and many very bad towing mishaps. Be careful everyone, drive safe.
I have a 210 and set up my tongue to just over 400 lbs. I tow with a pickup and this keeps adequate weight on the truck's rear axle to maintain good control and braking. It also provides for better traction when launching and pulling the boat out of a ramp. Most people grossly underestimate the weight of their rigs and typically have way to little tongue weight in attempts to make the rig easier to hitch and unhitch or prevent squatting their tow vehicle. (And when it comes to dealers, they simply don't know or don't care)
Make sure you take into account the weight of the trailer as well as the boat.....or better yet, go get the whole rig weighed...(loaded and fueled). Then as Harper said above, set the boat in the correct position on the trailer and adjust the axles for the recommended tongue weight around 10%. If the tow vehicle squats too much, beef up the springs. If it's under-rated.....upgrade. (my truck's tow rating is much higher than my boat's weight but it still squatted the rear, so I added aux-springs to maintain level towing).
Just keep in mind...... saying it "seems Ok" doesn't make it right. You'll find out at the worst possible time.
As a Class A CDL driver, I have seen a lot of rigs setup completely wrong and many very bad towing mishaps. Be careful everyone, drive safe.
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Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
I, too, have a Class A CDL, and have done considerable driving OTR. Bill's right, we've seen a lot of the results of poorly setup trailering rigs, and it usually isn't pretty. My truck came from the factory all those years ago with an HD rear axle and one-ton springs, but the rear spring setup is for a reasonably soft ride when not loaded, so it squats about three inches with the added TW (or it used to), before the heavier springs come into play. So I added AirLift air bags on the rear to overcome that squat. The whole rig now rides level. I should correct my previous post. I used to use about 2" rise on the hitch ball, but now it's just a straight one. The level trailer is important for acceptable treadwear on the tandem axle trailer.
djnolan
Contributing Member
- City
- Herndon
I just went through the trailer re-balancing with my 98 Explorer towing a 190. I moved the winch stand forward so the boat was fully on the bunks and the tounge weight increased to around 350#. It wasn't pretty, as the max tongue weight on the Exp is only 300# and I needed to have some cargo capacity, too. The guys advised me to rebalance the trailer (move the axel) to get back to under 250#. Towing the 190 with the explorer seems to be right at the limit.
I don't mean to be a loudmouth about this as it was the first time I have ever been through this, in fact the first boat I have ever owned.
I don't mean to be a loudmouth about this as it was the first time I have ever been through this, in fact the first boat I have ever owned.
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Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
No sweat dj......it can be a little harrowing. Your 190 is a little lighter than my 195, I think, plus, you're pulling a single axle trailer, if I read your posts right. My truck has a 500# max TW, and is probably a little heavier than your Explorer. Main thing is to support the transom with the bunks and have enough weight on the tongue to pull without getting into trouble. For anyone following this thread, it's important to remember that if you do get into a situation where the trailer of whatever sort starts to sway on you, do not try to countersteer and do not hit the brakes. Hold the steeering wheel as straight as you can and let off the throttle and slow until the swaying stops.
djnolan
Contributing Member
- City
- Herndon
I would like to understand better what causes instability or swaying of the trailer. Once I lightened the tongue weight I occasionally get swaying.
I have tried a couple of things to improve handling:
1. A bow strap to keep the bow from bouncing
2. A transom engine support
3. More tire pressure, trailer and tow vehicle.
4. More cargo/fuel weight in the tow vehicle.
I have tried a couple of things to improve handling:
1. A bow strap to keep the bow from bouncing
2. A transom engine support
3. More tire pressure, trailer and tow vehicle.
4. More cargo/fuel weight in the tow vehicle.
Harper
Recognized Leader Triumph 191/195 Forum
- State
- Republic of Texas
I think all four items you've listed are helpful, though I'm not sure the first two have any affect on trailer stability. I do all those things myself, especially #3. I have read opinions on this forum that the trailer tires need not, in fact should not be inflated to the max inflation listed on the tire, indicating that the softer tires provide a less jarring ride to the boat, lessening stress on the transom, yada yada. But everything I have read about pulling trailers, and all my own experience in pulling trailers, be they boat trailers or hauling horses or 64000# of potatoes, whether the trailer is loaded to the max allowable weight or only half full, trailer tires were meant to be inflated to the maximum pressure listed on the tire. Big rigs always run trailer tires at max, most of the tires we use on our boats trailers call for a max pressure of 50 psi, and that is what they should be inflated to all the time. Having the tires on your tow vehicle inflated above what you would normally use is also a good practice. The pressures listed by the Ford manufacturer on the door of your Explorer are a compromise for safety, comfort and fuel economy, and you should use higher pressures than what is listed when pulling a trailer, up to the maximum shown on the tire sidewall. You just have more control with a firmer tire.
Still with all that said, the point we have been making, load distribution, i.e., adequate tongue weight, is the most critical factor in the entire equation. I don't fully understand the physics behind why too light a tongue weight causes trailer sway, I just know it to be a fact.
Still with all that said, the point we have been making, load distribution, i.e., adequate tongue weight, is the most critical factor in the entire equation. I don't fully understand the physics behind why too light a tongue weight causes trailer sway, I just know it to be a fact.
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Dave LeGear
Contributing Member
- State
- Florida
Great discussion, and the 7 to 10% of the BMT weight on the tongue is a great guide and moving the axle making sure it is square on the trailer again, is the best best way to adjust it.
As far as trailer tire pressures goes, I do not run mine at max PSI (many say 50 psi) on the trailer tires for a very simple reason... For as stamped on the sidewall of the tire, I simply do not have that much weight down on that one tire. I found on the 190, and even more so on the Skiff, that it bounced like a Basketball when they were punched up that high so my rig I usually run from 40 to 45 PSI. Some of this comes into to play because I do not have leaf springs axles as such, my boat is riding on a little more of forgiving and independent suspension system.
I also make sure that I check my Tire Pressure when they were dead cold which is important for once you start to go over a mile or so, the heating of the tire will cause the air to expand thus those readings are not constant.
We now have a older video on the process of adjusting the trailer axle which should help others in the adjustment of the boat trailer axle and it can be found here:
https://www.performanceoutdoors.net...d-adjusting-your-trailer-tongue-weight.10285/
Though you can if you have the space, move the wench stand to help reposition the boat on the trailer a few inches. You just have to ensure that your hull is fully supported all the way (on the bunks) to the rearward most part of the stern. If not and over time even with a fiberglass hull you "could" develop a lip in the hull on the non supported section.
Hope this helps?
Dave
As far as trailer tire pressures goes, I do not run mine at max PSI (many say 50 psi) on the trailer tires for a very simple reason... For as stamped on the sidewall of the tire, I simply do not have that much weight down on that one tire. I found on the 190, and even more so on the Skiff, that it bounced like a Basketball when they were punched up that high so my rig I usually run from 40 to 45 PSI. Some of this comes into to play because I do not have leaf springs axles as such, my boat is riding on a little more of forgiving and independent suspension system.
I also make sure that I check my Tire Pressure when they were dead cold which is important for once you start to go over a mile or so, the heating of the tire will cause the air to expand thus those readings are not constant.
We now have a older video on the process of adjusting the trailer axle which should help others in the adjustment of the boat trailer axle and it can be found here:
https://www.performanceoutdoors.net...d-adjusting-your-trailer-tongue-weight.10285/
Though you can if you have the space, move the wench stand to help reposition the boat on the trailer a few inches. You just have to ensure that your hull is fully supported all the way (on the bunks) to the rearward most part of the stern. If not and over time even with a fiberglass hull you "could" develop a lip in the hull on the non supported section.
Hope this helps?
Dave
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